Andrew Rowe

Tell me a little about yourself. How did you get started, and what made you choose this path?

Andrew: It was a bit of a fluke, actually. I started as a carpenter, and then I got into oak timber framing. My cousin said, "I've got someone in Windsor that wants you to do some work for him," and I went and started doing oak timber framing. Ever since then, I've carried on with it. Moving down to Devon made it a bit trickier, though — like starting again, if you know what I mean. Now I do normal carpentry full-time, with the oak framing part-time alongside it. Preferably, I'd be doing the latter full-time instead.

Who is your ideal customer and why?

Andrew: Most of my customers are wealthy homeowners because timber framing isn’t a cheap job. It’s a bit like selling Ferraris — you’re not going to sell one to Joe Bloggs. The materials are expensive, and timber framing is expensive work so that’s just the type of customer the work attracts. I’m not particularly motivated as a businessman. I love working — I do seven days a week sometimes. But I’ve never really put the effort into advertising and saying, “This is what I’m going to do solely from now on.” You see timber frame buildings in garden centres and places like that, but they’re absolutely rubbish. They’re a lot of money for what is basically a glorified garden shed. I’ve thought about approaching that kind of market, but I’m one of those people who just goes to work, works hard, and gets on with it.

Where are most of your clients based, and how do you decide when a project is worth travelling for?

Andrew: With oak timber frames, it makes no difference where the work is — I don’t mind travelling all over. I build the oak frame in a barn, assemble it, disassemble it, then take it out to site and fit it. With normal carpentry, though, my day-to-day work needs to be more local. If someone wants doors fitting or other carpentry work, obviously that’s more local.

Where do carpenters add the most value to KBB projects?

Andrew: Probably in bedrooms more than anywhere else. Kitchens generally come off the shelf these days, but bedrooms often need genuinely bespoke work. Things like under-sloping ceilings, fitted furniture, bespoke storage, triangular-shaped drawers and awkward spaces. That’s where carpenters add the most value.

How has the cost of running a carpentry business changed compared to five years ago?

Andrew: Everything has become more expensive. The biggest increase has been materials. When I say materials, I also mean things like the cost of a van, the tools you put in your van, the materials you buy, everything. Those costs go under the radar because you can’t always foresee them, but they’re there all the time. You can’t just increase your hourly rate enough to cover all of that because people won’t pay it. Materials themselves can be added to a job cost, but tools and vehicles are fixed costs. Your blades, drills, saws, servicing and maintenance all cost money.

Not enough young people are entering the trades. Why do you think that is?

Andrew: I think it’s a lack of proper education. Young people come into the industry and by the time they’re 21 they’ve often only been in it a few years, but they’re already charging full rates. They’re not experienced. You’re paying for their knowledge, and they haven’t built that knowledge yet. When I was younger, I would’ve worked a Saturday for free if it meant I could learn something valuable. I looked at it as learning at somebody else’s expense. I think young people want to go straight into a job and earn good money immediately because that’s what they see. The reality is that when you’re learning, you won’t earn as much because you’re still developing your skills. People need educating on that long-term view — about what to expect and what’s expected of them. If I ask a young person, “Can you give me a hand on Saturday doing this, this and this?” the first thing they ask is, “What are you going to pay me?” Instead of being passionate about what they’re doing, money becomes the priority. They need to look at the opportunity and look further into the future. Once you’re qualified and you’ve got 10 years of experience and knowledge behind you, you’re almost irreplaceable because that level of knowledge can’t be taught overnight. It takes years.

Why do you think attitudes have changed compared to when you started?

Andrew: Everybody seems to think somebody owes them something. I read a story about a factory where only 50% of people turned up because it was snowing. The people who didn’t come in were mostly under 30. Their attitude was, “It’s snowy. Health and safety. You can’t make us come in.” Years ago people would move heaven and earth to get to work. Now we get a bit of wind or rain and people just want to stay at home. I think work ethic has changed. Loyalty to employers has changed. People don’t look at the fact that the business they’re working for is suffering because they didn’t come in. The government doesn’t help. The media doesn’t help. Personally, I think a lot of it comes down to education and motivation. The younger generation just aren’t as motivated to succeed.

Social media is full of perfect-looking projects. What don’t people see about running a carpentry business?

Andrew: People don’t see all the problems. Things aren’t ready on time. The weather causes delays. There are lots of issues that happen behind the scenes. One thing people definitely don’t see is that carpenters have to think for everybody else. We have to think about where electricians are going to run their cables. We have to think about plaster-boarders and where our timbers need to be positioned so the boards fit properly. As carpenters, we have to think ahead for everybody. People never see that side of our work. We’re having to consider what every other trade needs before they even arrive. I don’t think people appreciate that side of it as much as they should. Some people would say that’s extra work. My view is that’s part of your knowledge and expertise. That’s what your hourly rate is paying for. You’re not just supplying labour. You’re supplying advice and knowledge as well.

Why do some installation projects go wrong, and who is usually responsible?

Andrew: A lot of the time, architects and planners don’t take enough responsibility. They’ll give you drawings, but when you contact them because you don’t understand something, they often don’t know either. I had one architect say, “I drew it on a computer. I’m not sure either. I was hoping you were going to work it out.” That effectively puts the responsibility onto me. I’m one of those people who tries to find the solution and move things forward. So I think about it, come up with a solution, and get on with it. I just work it out. Usually I’ll run it past them afterwards and they’ll say, “Yeah, happy, fine. Thank you very much.” So I think architects and planners can sometimes avoid accountability. A lot of it comes down to confidence and experience.

Are architects and trades not communicating enough?

Andrew: Definitely. Architects often only speak to project managers, but the project manager might never have worked in the building trade. It’s a bit like somebody selling car parts who’s never worked on a car. Communication would be much better if builders could speak directly to planners and architects more often instead of everything going through layers of people.

What is your favourite type of project?

Andrew: Oak timber framing. If you’ve seen my LinkedIn, you’ll have seen I do lots of oak work. I’ve built whole oak timber frame houses, garages, porches and lots of other structures. I love it because not many people do it — it’s a specialist trade. It’s a bit like thatching roofs. Not many people do it, so it’s nice to be involved in something specialised.

What project taught you the most expensive lesson?

Andrew: All of them. The biggest mistake I’ve made is not pricing properly for collecting materials. I’d spend two hours driving one way, collecting materials, loading everything up, bringing it back and unloading it. By the time you’ve done that, you’ve lost half a day. Then there’s fuel. Then there’s unloading at the end. Before you know it, you’ve lost a day and never charged for it.

What do you do now to avoid making that mistake?

Andrew: Now when I price jobs, I allow extra time for delays and things that might go wrong. The problem is you’re always trying to keep costs down because you want to win the work. I can’t go to a sawmill and ask them to reduce timber prices because they’ll just say no. Material costs are fixed. So sometimes you end up cutting corners on yourself just to secure the job. You have to keep costs down.

How are profits looking?

Andrew: I’m getting by. Some jobs are easier to make money on than others. Most of the time you just keep your head down and keep working. I think it’s always been like that to some extent. Everything has become sky-high expensive now, but it’s always been a bit like that. At the end of the day, turnover looks impressive, but what matters is what you actually earn after tax.

If you were starting Andrew Rowe Carpentry again tomorrow with no customers, what would you do differently?

Andrew: I’d advertise oak timber framing solely and build the business around it. I’d probably employ somebody as well instead of struggling on my own and only bringing people in when I need them. When I lived in Windsor, I worked for very wealthy customers and had no end of work. I was constantly doing oak framing.

How are you managing your workload?

Andrew: I work with another self-employed carpenter. He employs an apprentice carpenter and pays his wages and holiday pay. The apprentice works with me, though. It costs me in a way because all my tools get used twice as much. But it also makes life easier because having another pair of hands can make a huge difference. I probably absorb some of that cost because it benefits all of us.